Since October is synonymous with Halloween, we can celebrate by looking at the master of the macabre, the duke of the darkness, your friend and mine, Mr. Edgar Allan Poe.
Poe said "meaning in literature should be an undercurrent just beneath the surface." He claimed that fiction with obvious meaning "cease[s] to be art."
What better conversation to have here in good ol' APE?
Take this quotation and run with it, mes petits choux. Is Poe-Diddy right? Wrong? Is art only art (and literature only literature) when it is complex? Can a simple fable or allegory be art?
Please post no later than Monday (Columbus Day...10/8/12) at 7pm. I'm hoping to have your posts graded and your rubrics in the folders by Tuesday.
Also, I have corrected the time zone.
ReplyDeleteI know I'm first again, but I like to get all my homework done and out of the way early :) also this is really long, I typed it on Microsoft Word and it didn't seem this long... but anyways, here it is:
ReplyDeleteI find this quote by Edgar Allen Poe to be very truthful and valid. I think that art is anything that is visually pleasing, but that also holds a deeper meaning when analyzed. Most great works of visual art mean something to the artist; otherwise they would not have been created in the first place. It is rare to find art that has not been influenced by emotions, circumstances, or events or that is intended to make a statement. Literature is very pleasing to the mind, and challenges readers to discover its meaning. It is also typically influenced by the author’s feelings or experiences and is written to send a message to readers. Works of literature are works of art, only they use words rather than paint to get their point across. I agree with “Poe-Diddy” when he says that fiction with obvious meaning “ceases to be art,” because I believe that art should be a puzzle waiting to be solved by those who encounter it. Literature should be challenging and should encourage readers to analyze all of its aspects to decipher the theme. Writers do not make specific character, symbol, plot, conflict, foreshadowing, etc., choices just for the fun of it. They are the reader’s tools for determining what the author’s intentions are beyond what they have written on the surface.
I agree completely with Edgar Allen Poe when he says fiction with obvious meaning "cease[s] to be art." Artists and writers alike choose to put certain elements in their work. Things do not appear by accident as Ms. Rouleau usually says. I agree with Jessica Simpson when she says that "most great works of visual art mean something to the artist; otherwise they would not have been created in the first place." I find this to be true because most artists have a purpose when they create a picture, just like most writers have a purpose when the write. Poe is right because fiction with obvious meaning is not really art. It is not crafted with a hidden meaning or theme for the reader to pick up on. I also agree with Jordan when she says "the greatest pieces of art and literature have details, intricacy, double meanings, significance." It is not "true" art if it does not have a deeper meaning.
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ReplyDeleteEdgar Allen Poe was completely right in saying that art is not art and literature is not literature if not complex. The greatest pieces of art and literature have details, intricacy, double meanings, significance; they are not thrown together by a kindergartener. Society holds fine pieces of art and literature on a pedestal because of the value they hold. Art and literature are not only meant for the viewer or reader to behold. The artist or author created their work to express their inner emotions, not just for the fun of it. If an artist or author put no meaning behind a piece of work, it is pointless, and rather boring to admire. The fun of the reader or viewer trying to interpret what the author or artist was trying to say through their work is gone.
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ReplyDeleteThere was an error :(
DeleteI agree with Edgar Allen Poe in that complexity often adds the beauty and meaning to a work, which in turn makes it art. Through studying art and literature in school, it is obvious that authors do not make choices on a whim. There is a lot of thought behind whether or not it is raining or snowing in a scene. I completely agree with both Jessica and Jordan in that part of the fun of studying art is to pick it apart and dive deeper into what it means. I love to dissect literature, much like what Jess mentioned about it being a "puzzle waiting to be solved," so if a work’s meaning was painfully obvious to me, I probably would not enjoy reading it as much. Jess also brings up a valid point when saying that works of art “mean something to the artist; otherwise they would not have been created in the first place.” The artist created the art to teach or show something to the viewer (or reader) and every choice an artist makes has a greater purpose. In fact, I would argue that a work becomes more beautiful as it is picked apart, when the meaning of the choices of the author starts to come through. If the meaning was obvious, as Jordan mentioned, the enjoyment of diving deeper into the work is gone.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Edgar Allen Poe's thought provoking point about art and literature. Art is something that is felt, not just seen or observed. It has deeper meaning, yet that meaning is not always understood at a first glance. Rather, it must be truly studied and observed, and maybe even then, the meaning cannot be put into words, but only felt. Literature is true art in this sense. An initial read might leave a feeling that cannot be described, but when the story is picked apart for symbolism, structure, characterization, setting, point of view, tone, mood, etc, that feeling can often be explained. That is the beauty of art, and that is the beauty of literature. I agree with Jordan in that an author wrote a piece to express their emotions. That may be felt simply by reading the story, but it is truly understood when the complexities of it are pulled apart and analyzed. Marrissa makes a great point when she says that a work holds more meaning once it has been picked apart. It allows insight into the author's inspiration or purpose. It gives meaning to the initial feeling about a piece of literature, or according to Poe, a work of art.
I agree with Edgar Allen Poe's statement that fiction without meaning ceases to be art. Fiction without a deeper meaning is simply stating the obvious. It is difficult to find a piece of literature creative or inspiring if there is no deeper meaning to the work. I also agree with Jessica's statement that art is influenced by events, emotions and circumstances. If A piece of literature is not influenced in any way then it cannot hold a deeper meaning. The deeper meaning of art is what makes it beautiful and without a deeper meaning or inspiration, the reader's thoughts on a piece of literature are limited to what is obviously stated on the page.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Edgar Allen Poe. I find beauty in the simplicity of things. For example, nature is simple yet breathtaking. Unlike Jordan, I find that details, intricacy, and double meanings can take away from the true art. Sometimes a little goes a long way. Art is art regardless of its meaning. Over analyzing a piece of art is unnecessary, it creates a daunting atmosphere for the reader. The reader is then unable to focus on the actual piece because they are always looking for the double meaning.
ReplyDeleteReally Ms. Rouleau . . . you speak French? “Mes petits choux.” We turn from chickens to cabbages? Well mon poulet, I’m going to answer now.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Marrissa that things in literature do not just happen on a whim and that certain things like rain or snow can add to art, but I still do not agree with Poe’s statement.
Art is in the eye of the beholder. Art comes from the heart. Every artist is deliberate, a painter with his brush stroke and an author with his words. When someone puts their heart and soul into something how can anything not artistic result? Simplicity at times can send a stronger message than the most complex thoughts and metaphors.
As children we can all remember working diligently on art projects at school. We would all anxiously bring them home to our parents hoping that they would be admired. Looking back it is obvious that art has never been one of my stronger abilities. That never mattered though. My simple art projects were displayed with as much dignity on my refrigerator as the Mona Lisa is at the Louvre in Paris. To my mom those projects were works of art (ok so she did not have her glasses on at the time).
The same can be said about literature. How a piece of literature is perceived by its audience is the deciding factor as to if it is a work or art or just words on paper. Art can take on many facades. To Poe, if a story was fiction and taught a lesson . . . it was not art. To the author of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”, this story was a work of art. Art in literature can be a lesson learned in a child’s fable as well as the sorrow felt for the lovers in Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.
Art, according to Dictionary.com is “the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.” I do not believe that Poe or anyone can determine what can be classified as art.
If this were Facebook, and I could "like" an entry, I would.
DeleteLike.
In my opinion, Poe was not right in making his statement on what classifies something as a piece of art. Saying “that fiction with obvious meaning ‘cease[s] to be art’” is like saying that a portrait of a person is not art because it has an obvious meaning. In art and literature, there are so many forms and styles of art. They range from the very complex poems and stories with hidden meanings that you yourself must uncover, to the very simple like allegories and fables which tell you straight out what they are all about. No matter their range of complexity, someone put time and thought into making them. It’s like what Marrissa said, “Authors do not make choices on a whim.” They put thought into their word choice and symbols, no matter how straightforward or complex they might be.
ReplyDeleteJust because one story may not have an extended metaphor with five different symbols and a complex syntax does not mean that it is any less a piece of art. It just means that the author was going in a more direct route to present their art. For example, just because some renaissance paintings have more detail and hidden meanings behind them, does not mean that they are any more “art” than the simple straightforward paintings of the medieval ages.
Also, since they have put time into making them, it means that they must care about what they write. They are all art because like Andie said, “When someone puts their heart and soul into something how can anything not artistic result?”
I think Poe is correct in saying this. Literature is not an art form unless it is complex. The articles in the news paper are not literature they are just news because they have a very obvious meaning. They are telling you straight out who won the game and what the score was, there is no deeper meaning. However for it to be an art form it has to have a deep complex meaning. Like Jordan says the greater pieces of literary work have double meanings significance etc., but with my news paper article there is no double meaning at all just basic details with an obvious meaning.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I have to say that Edgar Allan Poe is completely right when he says that fiction that has an obvious meaning "cease[s] to be art." To me, true art's interpretation varies on a person-to-person basis, and that every person can view a piece of art or literature and gain something different from it. Meanings change based on our own life experiences, we read and analyze works of art and literature in different ways based own our own morals and values. If a meaning of a work is obvious, taking away this valuable variation that a complex work might bring, that wipes away the whole point of a work. As Jordan states, "The greatest pieces of art and literature have details, intricacy, double meanings, significance". If these details are unimportant, and the work is longer complex and lacks multiple meanings, that changes everything. It can't be art if it can't be interpreted differently by many people. An author or an artist creates a work of literature or art HOPING for people to view their works differently, to take something from their art that can affect their own lives. Without some sort of complexity, a work can't vary in this way, and in my mind cannot be defined as any sort of piece of art.
ReplyDeleteBefore I can answer the posed question, I have to take a look at the definition of art. After looking up the definition, I decided to come up with my own. Art is objects or works that are appealing to the person experiencing them. We have all heard that “art is in the eye of the beholder”, and that is definitely true. Now back to the question. From my experiences, I am compelled to disagree with “Poe-Diddy”. I have read pieces of literature that I have thoroughly enjoyed without taking into account a greater meaning. I consider there types of literature to be art because they are appealing to me. A story can be beautiful without having a complex or complicated meaning behind it. Like Hannah, I see the beauty in simplicity and sometimes looking for a deeper meaning in a piece of literature takes away from it for me. Even if something is not complex, a person can find a deeper meaning in it because peoples’ interpretation of art is all different.
ReplyDeletesaving the best for last anyone? (:
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allen Poe is one of my favorite authors and in all of his writings, there is a deeper, more philosophical meaning, albeit usually with a dark connotation. The more challenging a concept in literature, the more attention it receives. da Vinci's Monna Lisa is easily one of the most widely known pieces of art but it is such a simple portrait. People are constantly searching for the reason behind her smile. The complexity and the meaning behind her ambiguous expression is what makes the painting so beautiful. When Jess says, "Works of literature are works of art, only they use words rather than paint to get their point across." she's correct. Art and literature both challenge their admirers to search for a deeper meaning. I believe that Poe is correct when he says an obvious meaning in a work of literature detracts from the beauty or "art" of the piece.
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ReplyDeleteEdgar Allan Poe is also one of my favorite writers. The dark imagery and subjects he uses are so fascinating to me, I've never read anything quite like him by another author.
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allen Poe's intention that art be only art if "it is complex" is right in some regard. A poem that is written hastily may have many errors. However, if one were to sift through those errors and edit them, there is a marvellous work to be had. In some cases, the first draft of an idea is the best one. If ideas keep being thought of and the right word trying to be found, then the train of conciousness for writing a literary work gets lost amongst the search to write the best piece. While it is important to write a work that is well thought out and free from errors, it is also important to let that work flow naturally. The writer must ask themselves a question as to whether or not a reader will want to sit through an elaborate work. Simple works also can stand the test of being pieces of art. No author has to be a master of the dictionary and thesaurus in order to produce a book or poem worthy of being celebrated by the masses.